Hon. Juventus Ojukwu was a member of the House of Representatives twice in the Second Republic. He was elected in 1979 and again in 1983 before it was aborted by the military. A retired army officer, Ojukwu represented Idemili Federal Constituency. A coursemate to President Muhammadu Buhari, he is of the view In this interview with Petrus Obi that the president deserves a second tenure. He also blamed some Igbo leaders for misguiding the people. In this exclusive chat, he warns that Igbo will regret if they don’t vote right in the coming elections.
You are a coursemate to President Buhari?
Well, that may be name dropping, but the truth of the matter is that yes, I am a coursemate to President Buhari.
Are you still a member of the All Progressives Congress, APC?
Yes, I am.
How do you view the forthcoming elections, as it concerns the Igbo?
The forthcoming election is going to be crucial, not only for Nigeria but also for Ndigbo; in the sense that we have an opportunity to make a strong statement and that statement is that we are an integral part of this country; a very important part of the tripod. That is the three major ethnic groups in the country.
There are other ethnic groups whom we don’t look down upon or neglect. So, the election is going to be important to us. Must we continue to cry marginalisation? Must we continue to cry neglect or being looked down upon? This election is a good opportunity to address that issue.
We have to seize the opportunity to walk ourselves back into mainstream politics. You cannot be at the periphery and keep crying and shouting and doing nothing to address the issues. For me and I think for many people (Igbo people), the best thing is to do something. When you have a problem, you do something about it. Don’t just cry over it. So, my suggestion and appeal to Ndigbo is to make a bold statement by their votes. Show Nigeria we are part of this country.
Show Nigeria that we matter. Show Nigeria that we have a say. How do you do it? By bringing ourselves back into reckoning. Shortly after independence, the Igbo people were regarded as very enterprising and we still are. We played a very strong role in structuring and shaping the course of events in Nigeria. We lost that over a period and gradually kept losing it. And we kept sliding into losing it further because of the Igbo leadership we have or non existence of Igbo leadership.
There are people who are self-acclaimed leaders in Igbo land. Some of them are occupying positions in Ohaneze Ndigbo. I respect them because I am an Igbo person. But some of these leaders buy their ways into that group because they know that the rest of Nigeria respects Ohaneze. So, anybody who holds an important position there is seen as a mouthpiece for Ohaneze. He maybe a mouthpiece but he might not be saying what is beneficial to Ndigbo.
So, we have lost our bearing and we need to get that back and the way to do it is during this election. Let us vote solidly for that party which is likely to win the election so that we will be part and parcel of policy making events. And the party I’m talking about is the APC. The APC won the election in 2015 and it is going to win it again.
I am not being sentimental or emotional. The truth of the matter on the ground is that no matter how you hate Mr. President, don’t cut your nose to spite your face. Don’t say because you don’t like this man and because the social media goes awash in abusing him whether he is Jubril or what, some very annoying and provocative statements made by people who ought to know. Don’t say because of that or everybody parades the story that he doesn’t like you and all that.
Force him to like you and the way to force him to like you is by voting for him. People say this is democracy and that we are free. Yes, we are free to go our own way and make choices. But when you make choices that don’t favour you, don’t cry to anybody. You make your choice and live with it. What I’m saying is that if the Igbo people miss the opportunity of throwing their weight with the party that is likely to win and will win again, then for a long time we are going to be in trouble.
Are you choosing APC because they are in power or because they have done well to come back? Why would you choose APC over PDP in the elections?
That’s a good question. I’m choosing the APC not because they are in power. A bad government can be in power. I’m choosing them because they have done well. How have they done well? Our presidential candidate (Buhari), anchored or predicated his campaign on three major issues; the economy, security and the anti-corruption war.
And he has done well in these areas. If anybody is abusing me, let’s look at the facts starting with anti-corruption. That is why I will go with him anywhere because for me, I am an anti-corruption person. If I am corrupt, show it to me; don’t tell the world that I am corrupt without bringing the facts.
Now on the anti-corruption war, this is the first time a head of state in Nigeria has spoken out against corruption and is doing something about it. There may be imperfections in operations here and there but that does not belittle the fact that the war on corruption is on. I challenge anybody who says that the fight is selective to show me or tell the world where there is evidence of corruption and it’s being hidden by the authorities that are meant to prosecute it.
The EFCC (Economic and Financial Crimes Commission) and ICPC Independent Corrupt Practices Commission) are the agencies in charge of fighting corruption. Now if I know that Mr. A has stolen or has done money laundering or has abused his office financially, it is in my place to write petitions to these agencies and I will tell the world that I have presented a petition. It is not enough to say this minister or that one is corrupt. Is he clean? Bring out the thing and put the case against him. And if they don’t react, publish and let the world know that you have put out this evidence. So, we are doing well on anti-corruption.
The fact is the fear of EFCC is the beginning of wisdom for looters. Corruption always fights back because it is in the nature of corruption to fight not to be exposed and that is why people are crying now. Many of them are so corrupt. Some in the judiciary, some in the bar, some in the medical profession, some are business people and some are politicians like me. All facets of life, corruption fights back.
So, those who say don’t touch this section of Nigerian politics, this is abomination to touch the judiciary or the bench or bar. Who does that? I tell my children make sure you don’t steal or commit any crime because if you do, I will look for a lawyer to help you, but I will not come out to say that you did not do it. So, these people who are defending crimes and so on, tell the criminal to stop crime. Don’t only complain when the prosecution starts.
So, the anti-graft war is being fought head-on by Mr. President. They call him names and do all sorts of things, but it is only a man with a strong heart that will continue, otherwise he would have given up on the fight. And I watched him on television the other day and someone asked me if he is frustrated and I said he couldn’t be frustrated and me too I am not frustrated in defending him.
Secondly, on why I should support the president’s bid to contest for second term is the economy. I cannot speak much about the economy. I will only make a general statement. And the general statement is that just last night, I was watching CNN, the IMF (International Monetary Fund) President, Christine Laggard, was saying that there is global slowdown in the economy worldwide.
They are meeting in Davos, Geneva, now and there is a problem all over the world. It is not in Nigeria alone and before the present government came on board, Nigeria was earning so much in oil revenue. It is common knowledge that we were not making any savings. If you don’t know where the rain started beating you, you may likely not know where it will end. The nature or usefulness of history is so that you chart the future and manage the present.
So, we will always refer to the past. And in 2014, there was a statement from Prof. Charles Soludo, who was the former CBN governor and he said and I quote: “Whoever wins 2015 general election will never find it easy to govern because over N30 trillion has been mismanaged or not accounted for by the Jonathan administration.
Do you know what N30 trillion is? And he is in a position to know because he was the Governor of the Central Bank. And people will call him names. People were saying all sorts of things and you want us to forget that. Okonjo-Iweala (former finance minister), who was highly respected, in the Nation newspaper of May 26, 2018, said and I quote: “We gave N17 billion to lawmakers to pass the 2015 budget.” Nobody has disputed that or challenged her. And Nigerians want us to forget all these?
Now in the present administration, people complain about the Treasury Single Account (TSA). Yes, it has its own problems but we shall get it right later. But the economy, with all its problems, is being managed well and alternative sources of revenue have been increased. Before, all our money will go into the importation of rice but that has been reduced. These elite, who complain, let them go and talk to farmers and know the truth – farmers in the North and even farmers in South – and know the truth. So, in the economy, we are doing well given the hardship that is global.
On security, I will make this a simple statement – by January 2015, two-thirds of our land mass were occupied by Boko Haram. Today, every inch has been recaptured. There is resurgence but you know Boko Haram insurgency is not a conventional warfare. It’s a hit and run thing. You may be sleeping with a man in the same room and he prepares a bomb, drops it and runs away. So, it’s not a conventional war.
You cannot stop it completely. We are fighting it and it requires the resources and goodwill of everybody. Right now, the media, some of them make fun of our losses and casualties. In war, I am a retired soldier and there is what is called the maintenance of morale. The civilian populace needs to heighten the morale of the soldiers. These are your brothers and sisters and you keep laughing at them and expect them to perform wonders. In fact, this morning somebody,
I think Obanikoro or so was giving evidence that he was instructed to give Fayose $5 million from security funds to go and prosecute election in Ekiti State. People close their eyes to these and say you are going to the past to do blame games. This is money meant for war on insurgency. I visited the Military Pension Board sometime ago and a young captain was showing me and said: “Sir, I know you are a retired officer, look at widows and orphans.”
That was during Jonathan’s regime. I said why are you showing me and he said: “Because government refused to buy us the right equipment, their husbands are dead, their fathers are dead. They are lying down and no one is paying attention to them.”
So, in terms of security, this government has done very well and needs the support of everybody. It is not a question of making mockery or laughing at our soldiers.
So, these are some of the reasons I would want the APC government to win again because it has done well. Regardless of who is writing the script, we must be dispassionate. And before the end of this interview, there is something I would like to say – there is the need for regeneration. I want to call on Nigerians to know that the bottom-line of our problem is godlessness. I say it everywhere. I am a politician and campaign for elections and I say it loud and clear.
Anybody who wants to contradict me should come out. I have never told one lie and I will never tell any lie not for myself or somebody else. Never! Politics is not all about lies, all kinds of aspersion and we keep claiming to be Christians and Muslims. And let me remind those who are Christians, the 8th commandment said: “Do not bear false witness against your neighbour.” Anybody who is a child of God is your neighbour. And people will keep lying all over the place even on social media “this man has been cloned, this man has died or is dying and so on.” And on Sunday they go to church and shout and clap hallelujah.
We need to be God-fearing, if we are God-fearing; you will not lie against somebody or steal or pass a wrong judgment and say somebody who is a thief is not a thief. If you are God-fearing, you will not allow a lawyer to bring money to you to influence a case. Let us go back to God and we shall all give judgment. I’m saying this very seriously. Even some of our church leaders and Muslim clerics will preach and preach. What do we do?
We make mistakes but we should try to correct them. Above all, we should not hate. We hate too much in Nigeria. And I’m calling on Igbo people, my people. People have led Ndigbo to hating. People have led Ndigbo who love to hate. There is an Igbo saying that when you are pointing one finger at somebody four are pointing at yourself.
We’ve done nobody wrong; it’s others who have done us wrong. We don’t abuse people, we don’t hate people, we don’t scandalise people. If we want to get it right, let us start loving and start making amends. So for us, this election is very important. If we don’t get it right, it will take 24 to 25 years before we can aspire to the Presidency and we have a right to aspire for that.
How will you look at Igbo leaders, have they played their roles well?
The visible Igbo leaders have not done well. I use the word visible. Someone will say I’m one of them but there are the ones who get free attention of the press at every time. They have not done well. They have not led the people aright. Why I’m saying this is that I know some young people who come to me and say that I’m a coward, that I don’t support the Biafra course and so on and so forth. They mentioned the name of a top Igbo leader, who calls them and tells them to fight and so on.
The same man comes on television to say let’s keep praying for Nigeria to be good. Behind, he goes to instigate and encourage violence. And what pains me is that some of our newspapers owned by our Igbo brothers will say these people are non violent. I am from Awka Etiti in Anambra State. I can give you instances of people, who have been violent and have caused damages in my place under the guise of looking for one thing or another in the name of self-actualisation. So, our Igbo leaders have not done well. They have not told our people the truth; they have not led our people aright.
Let them go to the primordial days when everybody is everybody’s keeper. Tell your people when they are following the wrong way. We are intelligent, we are enterprising but we are not philosophical. To be philosophical you need to think inwardly and things that may not profit you and it’s the truth, you say it. So, our Igbo leaders have not done well. We have to go to the communities and teach people to know values, Igbo values, Nigeria’s values, human values. When I was a member of the House of Representatives, I was a very young person. But you will know that you can equate a 30 years old man in the 60s to an 80-year-old man now. Because when some of us were in our 20s, we were paying school fees and looking after our siblings. Now someone, who is 40 years old sees himself as a boy. He wears dreadlocks.
So, our Igbo leaders should look into these things. Our Igbo leaders have not done well at all, especially the political ones. How can you be a political leader? Enugu-Onitsha road has been abandoned for 16 years (and) somebody is trying to put it right in three years and you say he only just started. But somebody left it for 16 years. Every year, there is money for it in the budget; either the money is not released or it is not utilised or misappropriated.
Look at the Enugu airport, President Buhari placed it in his budget in 2017 and 2018 for the repair of the runway. It was the National Assembly, semi headed by our own son that cut it and our Igbo people are not saying anything. He released money for the Enugu Port Harcourt expressway, the same thing for the second Niger Bridge. Sometime ago, I read in the papers where a columnist was saying that they were playing politics with the second Niger Bridge. Was it politics what you are seeing with your eyes? In the past 16 years, was it politics they played? In 2011 Jonathan said if by 2015 he did not put it in place, he would go on exile. Our people have general amnesia, they forget easily.
