Abraham Chukwudi Okoh is the Presiding Bishop of Kingdom Fire Ministry International, with headquarters in Lagos. He is also the Bishop of Apostolic Christian Network in Africa, CAN, a Christian body established in January 2004, under the leadership of Bishop James David Baker, in Austin, Texas, the United States of America. In this interview with DANIEL ANOKWURU, Okoh spoke on the relationship between the church and government, the religious and political crises in the country as well as the leadership style of President Muhammadu Buhari. He also spoke on political campaign in churches as well as the recent negotiations with bandits and terrorists in some states.
At what point did you think that God called you into the ministry?
Some were called to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. In my case, I had an encounter with God and He sent me to preach the message of the end time (the second coming of Jesus Christ) and to set the captives free through His words and rebuke the false worshippers with apostolic mandate to present the Glory of the true God.
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What would you have been in life if not a bishop?
Pharmacy is my profession. It is what I studied and I am still in love with it. Even as a bishop, I am in love with my profession. But because of the urgency of God’s calling in my life, I needed to give all my time to God.
What do you think Nigerians need to do to co-exist in peace?
The first problem of our country is idolatry. Occultism is everywhere. It is in every profession; go to schools at all levels, it is the same thing. Many politicians are occultists. Even the church that is supposed to correct and rebuke them has become worse. So, if Nigerians need to co-exist in peace, we need to pray for good, godly, and young leadership. The church needs to go back to God, who holds the manuscript of the nation. There will be need for a referendum as our fathers, who fought for independence did. Whereby these cannot be done, then let the zones go their separate ways.
How do we get out of the many crises in the country, ranging from religious to leadership tussles, rape, etc?
The religious crisis in this country is as a result of the lack of education mainly on side of the priests. When I said priests, I mean both Muslims and Christians. When the priesthood is well trained and is academically balanced, he will know the values of life. It is only then he can also train the people under him. Remember you cannot give what you don’t have. It is only when you have peace that you can preach peace and teach people how to live in peace. On the rape cases reigning all over, when women are walking naked on the streets, why will they not be raped? I look at it from three perspectives; moral deficiency or moral degradation; social media, which has exposed the young and old to pornography; family and religion breakdown.
The family has failed to teach the culture to the children and religious leaders also failed to educate the upcoming generation on the culture as well. This is the reason children are eating vulture and call it fowl. We allow women to go naked on the street, even in the church in the name of fashion and civilisation. One truth I want to point out here is that the body structures of a man and that of a woman are not the same. A man can expose sensitive parts of his body and people won’t be moved but that is not so for a woman. Where you have ten men gathered and a woman exposes the sensitive parts of her body, six to seven of those men may get out of control.
Do you think the church is still playing its roles in telling politicians the truth?
The Church is the agency of truth; the ground and the pillar of truth. But today, the Church is not seeing politics as God sees it or government as God sees it. The Bible described politicians as liars and blasphemous (Revelation 13vs1-5). God sees government as beast and human being sees government as beautiful (Dan2:1-40). So, some of the churches that see government as beautiful cannot tell politicians the truth. But those that see it in the way that God sees it will still rebuke them and tell them the truth.
What is your take on the leadership style of President Muhammadu Buhari?
One thing is sure; every leader is put in leadership position by God. So, I believe it is God that allows our president to be there because God wants him there. Every leader has his own style of leading but what makes a good leader is the ability to take the people you lead from where they are to where they are supposed to be. Our President needed to rest as God has led him to the age he is now. But the people around him, who are benefiting from him, won’t allow him to do so. Our President is a ruler and not a leader. I remember in 1985 when he was a military head of state, most of the administrative works were done by Tunde Idiagbo, his deputy. In this administration, he would’ve as well allowed Professor Yemi Osibanjo to do so. But the people around him didn’t permit that. That has made his government autocratic and tribalistic.
In recent times, politicians have been taking their campaigns to churches. What is your take on this?
Well, it is true that some political pastors have completely sold their anointing and calling on the altar of Ghana must go of Nigerian politicians. During the 2015 and 2019 elections, the Nigerian politician and his clique of political pastors did not only openly endorse and campaign for the men that bought them over with money, they went all out to spread falsehood in the name of God; how God told them who is the messiah of Nigeria. Today, the same messiah of Nigeria is now the devil.
The marriage between the church and the politician is a dangerous one that needed to be avoided. But because of glutinous and greedy nature of many churches, not only the politicians, even the comedians have taken over many pulpits. I remembered that I wrote an article that addressed the issues of politicians going to churches for campaign. It does not do the church any good spiritually. Rather, it makes the church more political than spiritual. There must be decorum, demarcation between the church and the politicians. The Church is a spiritual organism, while politics is for the people. So, joining spirituality and carnality is a dangerous combination. This is the beginning of spiritual declination and backsliding.
Do you think that the Church should be a radical voice in politics?
The Church should be a voice of corrections, rebuke and warning of God’s coming judgment to the Nation, to the Kings, that is the president, to the judiciary, that is the Senate, and the Rulers, the House of Representatives. The prophets were the voice that warned King David, Ahab, Jehoshaphat and others. So, the Church needs not compromise with politicians so as to enable her to correct and rebuke with a strong voice when necessary.
What is your take on the herdsmen and farmers crisis?
This is what wicked politicians used to fulfill their political ambitions, because the herders have been there for years and the farmers as well. They (farmers) know their (herdsmen) routes and even if they (farmers), from time to time encroach, they settle it. But when some ambitious, callous and inhumane politicians came to power, the crisis came up more deadly so as to enable them use it achieve their selfish desire.
Do you think the Ruga settlement idea, recently mooted by the Federal Government could have solved the herders, farmers crisis?
Introducing Ruga settlement is creating more and unending crisis in the nation. Even the unborn and future generations will inherit it. Also, as I said earlier that the handwriting is on the wall, Ruga settlement nationwide is a way of establishing Fulani colony in every state. It will cause more uproar. We have problem in Bakassi Peninsula because, the land belonging to some ethnic groups have been ceded to Cameron. So, if the Federal Government gives some land belonging to people to the Fulani for Ruga, it will cause unending crisis that will lead to mayhem in the entire country.
How would you describe leaders that negotiate with terrorists and bandits?
It is power intoxication. They want to retain power by every means possible, forgetting that God is the most powerful. He puts kings and removes kings. A good leader considers the plight of his people. For a leader to negotiate with terrorists and bandits shows that he is evil and he is just there for self satisfaction and selfish interest.
Are men of God still preaching against corruption?
The APC, PDP and all the other political parties in Nigeria should stop corrupting the Church and her priests because of their political interest. Theocracy church is now an open market where politicians, occult members, criminals with money can go in and buy anointing, hold ‘thanksgiving service’ and showcase the stolen wealth of our country. Before you preach against corruption, you must first be free from corruption.
I am very sure that every genuine man of God must stand to rebuke corruption, because he is called to do that. But, whereby a man of God has been compromised and is committed to the men of corrupt mind, he is no longer answerable to God who called him. The man, Mordecai was a man of God and he refused to compromise with the corruption of his days. He refused to bow or compromised the standard of his God. When a man of God is in the place of God, he can rebuke and correct corruption in the Church and society. Can occult pastor rebuke his member who is in the occult society? Can a yahoo boy on the pulpit in clergy attire rebuke those in the same club with him? No. A man who is ambitious to make money through church cannot rebuke armed robbers or a club girl because they are in the same club. He cannot rebuke or correct them. This is the reason why many who are on the pulpit can no longer preach against corruption.
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Now that the Supreme Court has dismissed Atiku Abubakar’s appeal and affirmed President Buhari’s election, what advice do you have for both the APC and PDP?
The former President, Goodluck Ebele Jonathan conceded defeat in 2015 and congratulated his opponent. This is an example of a democrat. He said his ambition did not worth the blood of any Nigerian. PDP should learn from the past and also plan ahead of time and as well organise its house preparatory to the 2023 elections. APC on the other hand, should re-structure its leadership and produce competent leaders so as to lead and govern us well. But if they continue the way they are going, they are likely to disintegrate in 2027, just like the PDP and another minority party will become a formidable force. But our prayers should be that the country will still be one by then.
Is there any issue you think that the Federal Government is not addressing the way it should be addressed?
We are to show good examples of our constitution and constitutionally, it is stated that all the citizens of the federation of Nigeria must be law abiding. But our leaders who are number one citizens are not abiding by the constitution. For example, there are people that the courts granted bail and are still in detention. I also think it is wrong to send soldiers to do paramilitary work. The Federal Government should know that the police and Immigration are capable of doing the work of identifications successfully.
